I was perusing comments this morning, and I ran across this one from Robin, an active Saint.
It saddens me that no one thinks I know the history of my own religion, that you all think that you’re the first to give me all of the points you’ve all outlined, that you assume that I haven’t had the same questions and suspisions that arise in this very blog, that just because I call myself a “Saint,” that all of you lump me, an individual, into a most narrow category, and that you call my words incorherent diarrhea just because we disagree. I was wrong to think that anyone would be interested in hearing my insignificant opinion. I guess there’s no interest in hearing from any actual Latter-day Saints in this blog. And why should there be? You guys seem to already have every single one of us figured out. I don’t even see the need to contiue this website for that matter. I certainly won’t waste any more time here. I hope that you’ll each catch a glimor of the hipocrasy and narrow-mindedness that exists in your own hearts and words. I’m sorry we couldn’t all discuss our thoughts in a more humane manner, but if your intention was to drive me off your site, then you’ve succeeded.
High fives to all
First of all, Robin, this is MY blog and MY site, and I have not been one of the ones “driving you away.” In fact, I’ve been kind of busy with revisions, and pretty much missed your comments. So I went back and read them. And I see that you are what I think of as a “progressive” Mormon. There are many of these out there, who have REALLY thought these things through, and are bothered by them, and in many instances, would like change. However, at the end of the day, you are still very much believing, something that most here will simply not be able to comprehend.
While I don’t consider your comments verbal diarrhea, they still do not ring valid to me. You are not offering me ANY real reason to accept this doctrine, i.e. polygamy. You don’t even have a grasp on it yourself. You wrote:
I hope that as a Mormon, I can shed some light on this issue. YES, Latter-day Saints DID practice polygamy up until the 1890’s, when it was then outlawed by the LDS church. (Remember, “Mormon” is an umbrella word that can mean more that one existing church.) And YES, we do believe that the practice of polygamy will resureface after the second comming of Christ. BUT NOT FOR ALL!!!!! There is no definate doctrine on how all of this will work. But polygamy will not be meant for everybody. That is not to say that those who will practice it are better than those who don’t. Some say that because there are more women (and that women generally tend to me more faithful) that there will be some sort of need for polygamy. Again, that is not doctrine. Just a widely held belief. As for temple marriage. If a man is sealed to a woman and she dies, he may then be sealed to another woman without the first sealing being broken. YES that is a form of polygamy and that man will have two wives in the eternities. NO women cannot be sealed twice. ITS WEIRD. I know. I don’t have a good explanation for it. Or even a bad one for that matter.
Unfortunately, not having a good explanation for it does NOT shed any light at all upon the practice of polygamy. You just repeated what others have said in the past, which is probably why someone accused you of verbal diarrhea. You are spouting out what you have heard in the past, without any substance to SHED LIGHT on it.
And frankly, I get this. I understand why it happens. There IS NO VALID DEFENSE OF POLYGAMY. I keep asking for it, and no one gives it to me.
What I would like is for someone–anyone–to bring to me a VALID reason for polygamy. I don’t want to hear the history. I know the history, just like you do. I also know what I was told, just like you. But it doesn’t add up.
And if possible, I would like to keep the discussion calm and without name-calling. I TRULY want to know how believing Mormons can defend polygamy, when there is no basis for the practice, except perhaps, “Because God said so.” That one isn’t going to fly.
As for not being accepted here, Robin, I don’t think it’s personal. I think the people who comment are asking you to really think through what you are saying, and if it doesn’t mesh, they are going to tell you. This is not a “blind faith” blog. It never will be. That said, I encourage Mormons to visit and comment. However, it is entirely possible that your reception will be like the one ex-Mormons receive at the FAIR Boards. There, a person such as myself is POUNCED UPON immediately and treated like Joseph Smith at a cocktail reception for the last two women on the face of the earth. So it goes both ways. If you comment on an ex-Mormon blog, you should probably expect some static, especially if you are not offering up valid arguments.
That said, I took your comments this way. I think you really do want to have some dialogue with former Mormons, and you explained that not all of the beliefs are EASY for you to understand, either. You just believe the CHURCH is true, and thus, you have to find a way to dampen those doubts because the end product is what you want.
And that’s okay, I guess. As long as you aren’t going to try and defend it in public arenas, because that becomes a bit of a sticky wicket.
One of your comments regarding the history of the Mormons was filled with errors. You said:
And thirdly, as far as Mormons fleeing the country in the mid 1800s, it was not because we couldn’t do what we wanted. It’s because we were being KILLED. FACT: Up until the 1970’s it was legal in the state of Ohio to shoot a Mormon on sight!!! Sadly, those types of details were left out of the history books. Many Mormons, were slautered by their fellow countrymen. We were chased out of the country. If we didn’t leave, I don’t think there would be many left. I hope this was helpful. I’ll try to check back later if there are any questions.
The state in question was not Ohio, it was Missouri. And in truth, only about sixty Mormons were killed, and the MORMONS went on the offensive, not the Missourians. They were ordered to settle there, by Joseph Smith, and the Missourians were worried about the influx of Saints, who tended to vote in “blocs” as they were told. It’s all very well documented, and while I do not believe the Mormons who died SHOULD have died, it was not a mass persecution and execution like the Holocaust or other such black stains on humanity.
Again, I do not think the Mormons should have been killed, but likewise, I do not think the victims of the Mountain Meadows Massacre should have been killed by the Mormons either, for much the same reason.
Both, I believe, were killed out of fear and ignorance. Much of what happened MUST be attributed, also, to the ERA in which it happened.
At any rate, Robin, you appear to want a dialogue, but if so, you must be prepared to hear things you are not going to like. You are certainly welcome here. I’m sorry if the attacks seemed personal, but they are not. See, here’s the thing. Most ex-Mormons arrive at the place they are at with great cost to their personal lives. You lose family members, respect, community, friends, support systems. When you realize the Mormon Church could not POSSIBLY be true, suddenly you are accused of being tempted by Satan, or not listening to the whisperings of the spirit, or, worst of all, of HAVING BEEN OFFENDED and leaving because of that. Please. What kind of stupid excuse is that?
Those of us who find ourselves here have studied, researched, explored, and spent many, many hours pondering the very serious life decisions that come with leaving a religion behind.
Most of us leave behind family members, who spend the rest of their lives trying to lure us back in.
As a “born in the church” Mormon, I am here to tell you that walking away from a birth religion is probably one of the hardest things a person ever has to do. I know that the common Mormon party line is that it is just easier to not live the Mormon priniciples. This is not true. It’s MUCH easier to be a Mormon. Your every step on every path is already outlined for you.
For those reasons, and others, there are no easy answers for ex- Mormons. You cannot expect to show up and hand out the standard lame excuses, and expect them to be embraced.
That won’t fly in this community of people who have had to fight for their very right to exist peacefully as Ain’ts in a land of Saints. You believe. We don’t. If you don’t offer good reasons why WE should return to YOUR state, then your reasons will not be accepted.
It’s as simple as that.