From the Mormon Hate Mail Bag
Today we have TWO, yes, TWO pieces of Mormon hate mail we are going to examine. Are you ready? Are you excited? I thought so.
First, from our new friend Garrett.
Where is your rant on the Catholic Church? Aren’t some of their areas so riddled with lawsuits that they are having to sell properties in order to fend off bankruptcy (look at Portland!). Aren’t they pais and professionally trained clergy. And they’re worse!!!
How does your solution of training help? The Catholics have proved that training has no bearing!
And get your cover ups right. It wasn’t the Mormon Meadows Massacre, it was the Mountain Meadows Massacre. All those things you mentioned have not been covered up. I learned more about those incidents, and the horrible wrongs that were done, in an LDS History class at an LDS college by and LDS professor than I have ever heard from any other source. The Church confronts its past head on.
I barely read two words about extermination orders by Missouri in US History, and murderous attacks on Mormons in Illinois, but this country pays retributions to Native Americans Japanese-Americans and creates numerous social programs for African Americans. Maybe it’s the rest of you covering up the wrongs to Mormons, not the other way around.
Face it, every house has it’s sewer. And stop thinking that Mormons are perfect, or think that they are perfect. We are all humans just tryong to get through this life. Many have found their happiness. Looks like you are still searching for yours.
Garrett
I fear our friend Garrett is another Mormon of the “look over there!” mindset of religion. I’m well aware there is plenty of nefarious dealings going on in other religions, too, Gar. Not necessary to point that out. It might work if this blog was titled, say, CATHOLICS ARE THE BOMB, but it’s not. I’m not holding anything ELSE up to your scrutiny and saying this is true. I realize that makes it hard for you, because then you have to resort to other tactics to draw our attention away, but you’re going to have to deal with this fact. I don’t WRITE about the Catholics because I don’t know SQUAT about the Catholics. Mormonism is my heritage. I live here in Utah surrounded by it, they like me enough they refuse to let me go, and I see it and deal with it daily. Therefore, I address it.
And really, you are saying what I have said repeatedly. Are you aware of that? Mormons are HUMAN BEINGS. They make mistakes.
As for this little statement: “And get your cover ups right. It wasn’t the Mormon Meadows Massacre, it was the Mountain Meadows Massacre.” MMM, I just tripped over my words a bit. My apologies for getting the actual terms wrong. I’ve done that before. I found myself typing along and WHAMMO, I’ve substituted something totally different. I’ll make sure to fix it, and thank you kindly for pointing it out.
On the training issue, so here’s a question back to you, Garrett. Are you actually maintaining that training will NOT help? See, the Catholic Church has had to face up to the fact that they fucked up big time. Yes, those priests were paid clergy, but the entire system was still operating under the “protect the church at all costs” agenda that the present day Mormon Church still uses. The backlash, the lawsuits, etc., are all working to change that now. They can no longer HIDE those horrible evils under the rug. That’s a good thing. I want to see the same from the Mormon Church. But you’re using the “look over there” theory again. “They had training, and LOOK what happened.” Training will only work if the system is ALSO set up to protect the victims, and not protect THE CHURCH. And that’s the bottom line.
This, of course, was my favorite part of the whole email. “The Church confronts its past head on.” BWWAHHHAAAHHHAAAAAAA. I nearly peed my pants. If THE CHURCH confronted their past HEAD ON, then Mark Hoffman would never have been able to pass off forgeries as real documents, because the Church hierarchy would not be so busy trying to cover things up that they thought would be harmful they never would have paid money to him in the first place.
If THE CHURCH confronted their past HEAD ON, then Boyd K. Packer would never have said, “Some things which are true are not very useful.”
If THE CHURCH confronted their past HEAD ON, they would not have published a manual in 1997 that wrote only about Brigham Young’s ONE wife. ONE WIFE??? Hello? Try 55! If you are facing your past HEAD ON, why do you LIE? That’s not honesty, Gar.
I could go on and on, but I’d bore myself to tears. Look, I can appreciate you don’t like my take on Mormonism, but it’s free agency dude. There ya have it.
Now, on to Marco.
Oh what a discovery ! This website is just delightfull. Full of vulgarity, weird analogies with mormonism, a great, dark & scary graphic… Man, that looks really like a big show, out here… Wow, Joseph Smith thought the moon was inhabbited ? What a great deal ! At that time, many people thought that. Oh that’s right. I forgot that a prophet is supposed to be inspired all the time : when he wakes, when he eats, when he thinks, when he talks and when he dreams. Funny how people can make up wrong images of what prophets should be or not… But sad also because of the deception it brings when those high hopes are not fullfilled… Funny also that guy who talks about freedom, free agency and twisted dialectic. What if I say that his analysis is somwhat biased, because what HE thinks freedom is (e.g. doing all the things contrary to the Gospel) is not exactly what I think it is - or someone else : an atheist, a muslim, a buddhist, etc. Looks like for him, failure to freedom is following Christ… Exactly the opposite. Quite interesting statement anyway. Before talking about “twisted dialectic”, maybe we should start with real definition of freedom. And then we’ll see who is twisting what…
Oh well… Anyway, visiting this site was worth it. I’m going right away to write my excommunication letter to the Church. I’ve been convinced : mormonism is baaaaad, and happily, there’s here a bunch of people who are tapping in each other’s back to persuade themeselves of that solid truth…
Bonne chance! Marco
Gee, thanks for the compliments, Marco. Been a while since someone called my site DELIGHTFUL. I’m quite sure you were being honest and not at all sarcastic.
I’m also SO glad that my site convinced you that you were wrong. By the way, what the fuck is a “twisted dialectic?” OOops, there goes that vulgarity again. It seems to be a web term that contradicts ITSELF. Your going to have to be more clear about what you mean, but that would mean WRITING A COHERENT statement. Sheesh. Good luck with that.
As for the prophet thing, are you trying to say that whenever Smith made a mistake, he wasn’t a prophet, and when he didn’t, or at least didn’t caught doing it, he WAS? You mean you get to PICK AND CHOOSE. Today he’s a prophet, but yesterday he WASN’T? Twist that dialectic!
Man, I need to get back to book deadlines. Trappees, hope you enjoyed the mail…..
July 13th, 2006 at 4:13 pm
Wow.
I’m not Mormon. I’m Catholic. And I think both of your hate mails are the most un Christ like statements I’ve ever heard. Christ accepts, he doesn’t excommunicate.
Shame on them.
July 13th, 2006 at 7:47 pm
Okay, first off I have to ask…did he mean pious? (pais?)
You know Natalie, no matter how much you protest them bugging you, they will just throw more tunnel visioned ignorance at you. Why do I say ignorance? Because an intelligent reply or rebuttal would give you an intelligent posit, pro or con, and realize the world revolves with more than two points of view. But, ohhhhh no. You my dear are a Mad Man magnet. They crawl out of the wood work spewing anger and opinions without
1) weighing their words first
2) chosing their battles wisely
3) knowing all sides of the issue before pronouncing their edict on…
a) you
b) your thoughts
c) your intelligence
d) our intelligence
e) or the truth and legitimacy behind their wn position
1) and while I’m at it, for once I would like to see one of these M&M’s base their knowledge on text and documentation outside of Mormonism.
But because I know they’d be amused…look over there something shiny.
July 13th, 2006 at 9:57 pm
hahahahaha… really, can either one of these posters write a true sentence? Or, are they writing inspired sentences???? LMAO
July 13th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
Ho hum . . . more of the same.
Nat, I hope you had a good vacation.
July 14th, 2006 at 12:11 am
Hmm. I don’t think Garrett really wants to drag up the attrocities committed towards the early mormon church. He may just learn about the dastardly deeds committed by the mormons that prompted the violence in the first place.
Interesting site.
July 14th, 2006 at 4:56 pm
I ALWAYS love the Mormon hate mail episodes. They make me evaluate how far I’ve come. It scares me when I realize that could have and would have been me writing that dribble just a mere 5 years ago. Somebody PULEEEEAZE promise to shoot me if I ever get sucked back into that lying deceitful cult!
July 14th, 2006 at 7:24 pm
My friend is having her nephew and two of his friends come spend the weekend with us. All returned missionaries! Nothing has been said . . . yet. Geezo peezo, I wish I could unclench my butt checks. This is starting to hurt.
Inthenameoftheosmondsamen,
Howy
July 14th, 2006 at 11:18 pm
Oh boy.
K.
July 17th, 2006 at 9:41 am
Well, the weekend is over and the Momo missionaries never never mentioned their church. Never tried to recruit, preach, entice . . . nothing. Actually, we hardly saw them. They came late afternoon on Friday, grabbed the boogie boards and hit the beach. Came back at dark, ate supper with us and went to a casino until the wee hours of the morning. Next day they had breakfast, grabbed the boogie boards, hit the waves and then hit the highway. They were going to stop at the casino one more time to see if they could recoup their losses from the night before. All in all, a great time was had by all. They were a pleasure to have as guests.
Now, neither of them would drink the coffee I provided in the morning. I guess that’s against their “Word Of Wisdom”. No problem. Is gambling allowed in that “Word Of Wisdom”? I really don’t know.
It cracked me up to see them running around upstairs in their garments when they were getting ready to leave. Beside being butt-ugly those things have to be HOT!
I work out of my home and on hot days my uniform is as close to my birthday suit as possible. When dreaming up a religion how does, “Oh yeah, you have to wear hot, ugly underwear!” work as a selling point?
July 17th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Ummm.. gambling is against church doctrine. LOL
BAD BAD RM’s.
July 17th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
I am the one who threw in the “twisted dialectics” statement. I’ve read a great deal of early 19th century literature and philosophy (Hegel, Kark Marx, Joseph Smith, and the other “modern” thinkers). Mormonism, Communism, Fascism, Modern Liberalism and other plights of mankind seem to have popped out of the same period and seem to share many of the same methodologies. It is something the faithful hate to admit.
Dialectics is a form of argumentation that has been around since before Socrates. Modern thinkers have used this style of arguments to convince large numbers of people that an absolute dictatorship would “liberate the people”. Hitler convinced his followers that starting the largest war in the history of mankind was a path to peace and justice.
Dialectics is a system of argumentation that produces silly results like the statement “freedom is slavery and slavery freedom.”
Joseph Smith was no where near as clever as Marx. JS simply convinced a group of people that he was the mouth of Christ. Therefore, following his dictates was the same as following in the way of Christ.
Once you get the system going, you can justify lying, stealing, cheating and murdering.
Blood Atonemnt is a great example here. Anyone killed in the name of the prophet will go directly to heaven. Therefore, Mormons who kill the enemies of Joseph Smith are doing the people they kill a great favor. Killing others for your personal gain is “the path of Chirst.”
Another fun case: Since you’ve defined gentiles as evil, stealing from them is justified since it keeps money and power in the hands of the faithful, and prevents the money from being used for evil purposes. (A gentile feeding his children is an evil purpose).
The Southern Utah cults have twisted their world view to the point that they consider mass welfare fraud a virtue. Welfare fraud starves the beast and prevents evil single parents from getting the money. It is really a sick world view.
Modern dialectics has really just produced clever ways for people to justify the mean things they want to do unto others.
BTW, a common definition of “freedom” is that it is the absence of coersion.” It is the ability to make your own choices. The classical liberal view of freedom gives people the ability to control their property and resources. The classical liberal view of freedom does not give you liberty to other’s property. You are not free to subject others to coercion.
Joseph Smith’s “free agency” creates the LDS hierarchy as a coercive agency. You have the freedom to do as the Church dictates and be rewarded or to be cast out of the body in punishment. In my view, this is a rather nasty piece of work that has the potential of being abused. I’ve come across a number of instances where this type of logic has been misused and people suffered as a result.
July 18th, 2006 at 9:54 am
Kd… very interesting subject. Thank you for the information.
July 27th, 2006 at 2:01 am
mormons are nothing but a cult and i’m trapped in zion. i thought utah was part of the USA. i see homes and people that look like americans but they are not. i;m in the village of the damned! i live in ALIEN-ATION! that is the best way to describe living with mormons. i cant stand them anymore!