Jeff Lindsay Says “Anti-Mormons” Ruin Credibility by Being Honest
I’m perplexed. Jeff Lindsay, of the Mormanity blog, apparently thinks that everyone should live their lives according to the unofficial teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In other words, if it ain’t pretty, HIDE IT or lie about it.
The reason he speaks of this, is because he is attacking, without naming, Simon Southerton, who has received a media blitz lately because he has been called into a Church “Court of Love,” to address his membership in the Church. Apparently, this membership is in danger because when Simon was separated from his wife, he had a relationship with another woman. And he now has the GALL to be honest about it. Simon, whatever are you thinking? Of course, the truth is Simon’s membership status is in jeopardy because he wrote a book that is not pro-Book of Mormon. But given the recent fiascos like the Grant Palmer affair, leaders want to make it look like they are “loving” Simon out of the Church ‘cuz he was bumping nasties with someone other than his wife.
Jeff’s headline on his blog of Friday, July 22, read:
Tip for Anti-Mormons on Maintaining Credibility:
Do No Evil, or at Least Admit to No Evil
Um, that’s kind of an oxyMormon, er, oxymoron, isn’t it? Maintain your credibility by LYING???
Of course, we all know Jeff is guilty of a little “spinning here.” You can go read his entire blog on this matter, but I found this interesting.
Given that, I just don’t understand why one up-and-coming anti-Mormon would tell the world that he’s being excommunicated for adultery, and even admit that adultery took place. Why, why, why? Seriously, this kind of thing rattles other devout anti-Mormons and makes it difficult to keep the debate focused on the real issues. And I just don’t understand why someone who rejects the Church would wait for Church disciplinary action to be taken, allowing an issue like adultery to even enter into the debate. If you reject the Church and want to depart, you only have to write a letter asking for your name to be removed. Even if local leaders know there were moral transgressions involved, they are required (as I understand the current rules) to accept your request and remove your name from the records, if that’s what you really want. So, if for some reason you are planning on a career as an anti-Mormon apostate, please don’t do stupid stuff, or at least don’t admit to doing stupid stuff, and just get your name off the records before any stupid stuff you’ve been doing might become an issue.
The comments about lying aside, you are sadly MISTAKEN, Jeff, about it being easy to have your name taken off. Why I myself had my name removed only to show up again, TWICE, on the local records. Thus, you have me, a Mormon, chastizing you, a fellow Mormon, for your stance on Simon’s dilemma. I tried to be an ex-Mormon. I really did. For some reason, they are reluctant to let me go. So much so, that they have CLONED me and given me an imaginary son.
So, as a fellow Mormon, I have to ask, WHY are you encouraging Simon to lie? Surely this is against all the tenets of ANY religion professing to follow the gospel of Jesus Christ?
This is perplexing stuff, Jeff.
As for the rest of you readers, you can see my response to Jeff’s entire post, here: I am reprinting it, as there is a good possibility it will be deleted, in the Mormon Church spirit of “hide and cover up what you can’t explain.”
My response:
Jeff, Jeff, Jeff….
The REASON ex-Mormons cannot leave the Mormon Church alone is because the Mormon Church will not leave US alone.
It’s really very simple. Consider this:
You decide, based on teachings, tenets, and beliefs, that you can no longer reconcile membership in a religion, so you leave.
Then the calls start. The doorbell rings. The bishop comes over. The visiting teachers love bomb you. Neighbors give you strange looks in the grocery store. Family members confront you daily.
“Well, why ARE you leaving?” they ask.
You are honest, and tell them. They come back with answers about why you should not leave, and why your answers are faulty.
So you find MORE answers. After all, you did not reach this point just because someone said something NASTY to you at Church the week before. Or because the bishop’s nose hair was offensive to you. No, you left because you didn’t like the racist teachings of Brigham Young, or the fact that the Church is trying to hide the fact he “taught” those racist teachings, or even better, that the official biography of Brigham Young only mentions one wife. What happened to honesty?
Oh yeah, I remember. “Some things that are true are not very useful.” Boyd K. Packer.
Back to the “truth.” When you tell your concerned Mormon friends and family about the lack of truth in the Church, they try to rebut that, and can’t, so it generally ends up with a “You should pray about it.”
Because faced with the truth, that is the only answer they can have, and the only way THEY can reconcile what they believe. If you feel a burning of the bosom, it must be true.
Ex-Mormons don’t embrace that burning bosom anymore. And Ex-Mormons cannot leave the LDS Church alone because it will not leave THEM alone.
End of story.
As for Simon, why shouldn’t he be honest about his life? He doesn’t live under the Mormon mantra of some truths not being useful, because he has come to the conclusion that Mormonism is NOT true.
Instead of giving him credit for being honest, you are bringing out the adultery claims to drag him down, even stating that he should not “admit to evil.” As if Simon himself is required to live by LDS tenets when he has rejected those tenets.
Should he be excommunicated? Yes. He has said that himself. He is no longer living his life according to the tenets of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and therefore, should no longer be a member.
What Simon takes issue with, and where the Church has made yet another fatal mistake, is that this is all coming about AFTER his book came out and garnered great publicity. And instead of being honest, and admitting that the BOOK is the reason he is being exed, the bishop prosecuting him is trying to make it about adultery. If the “adultery” were the issue, it would have been addressed at the time the ADULTERY took place, and not now that his book is lighting up the media fires.
It’s just an excuse, and you know it as well as I do. Make Simon look bad, or “evil” as you say, and it will discredit his book. After all, he has an “agenda.” He’s evil.
I realize that YOU are trying to focus on Simon’s human fallibility, and not the book, so you are talking about the same issue as the Church is. I’m sure they appreciate your spin, but they don’t really need it. They are spin masters extraordinaire. Gordon B. Hinckley spins with the best. In fact, I cannot even set eyes on him without needing a good dose of dramamine, he makes me so dizzy.
Your heading on this post is interesting, really, in that you are actually ENCOURAGING “Anti-Mormons” to lie. That would certainly suit your purpose, but why would they? They are not governed by that “protect the Church at all costs” mentality anymore.
Most ex-Mormons have learned to be brutally honest. If you are not, you will be hounded to death for time and all eternity.
On another note, why is it you believe that your church can send out thousands of missionaries to tell people that Mormonism is the only true church, but no one is allowed to disagree?
If you are willing to STEP UP and say something is true, surely you should have to defend it?
Or would that make too much sense?



December 5th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
I’ve had words with Jeff Lindsay. He’s a joke of a human being from a joke of a church. I’m convinced that the heads of the church know how full of BS the LDS faith is. So why do they stay? Hmm, maybe because it’s the 2nd largest financial institution West of the Mississippi river? It’s about money. It’s about taking 10% of all their members income with the threat of not allowing them to be endowed in the temple. Jeff Lindsay is a puppet for the LDS cult. Nothing more and not worth anyone’s time. Dan Peterson should also be thrown into that category.
April 9th, 2008 at 12:17 am
He is quite a charactor. Annoying straw man arguements.
I recorded a conversation that I had with him (that which I was able to save)
http://behindzioncurtain.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=358
January 7th, 2009 at 10:43 am
I recently tried to get an unceiling. After almost 2 years my stake president keeps screwing up, trying to blame my wife and I for things he should of easily seen on the form for the unceiling. You ever wonder why the church pushes ppl to go on missions and positive aspects but when it comes to a negative aspect like an unceiling so I can marry my wife in the temple which the church talks about, they drag there heels cause they don’t want the negative imagine on them. I talked to my folks about this and surprisingly they side with the stake president. Do you have any solutions or comments you can help me out with this?
January 8th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
The war between science and religion is best seen as a battle between a shark and a tiger. On its own territory, each is invincible: but stray into the opponent’s kingdom and the enemy is bound to prevail. - Steve Jones
Tragically, this war will rage on, indiscriminately destroying what we humans hold close to our hearts: lives, relationships, health and happiness – even possibly our very existence on this planet. Excuse the simple, perhaps unnecessary metaphor – but it appears to me that we are all guilty of looking through very jaded eyes. We too often perceive feelings, and this perception becomes our reality. As humans, we are often unable, perhaps unwilling to look beyond our jungles, our oceans. Yet we are anxious to yell across the borders, quick to insult and belittle those outside of our limited territories. We reign supreme in our own environments without the desire or ability to perceive truth outside of this perceived reality. Truth becomes irrelevant in our quest to justify ourselves. I will say this as a basic tenant of human nature - If we search diligently enough, with enough conviction and need, each one of us will find and justify what we are searching for. And we will find it and justify it often regardless of truth. The saddest part of the war is that it is being waged on a foundation of perceptions. If we look deeply enough into our hearts, I believe that we will be able to admit that we simply don’t have the answers. God simply does not have a “chosen” people. Maybe we will be able to admit this to ourselves before we destroy each other.
For me, religion is currently far outside of my realm of reality. This belief did not come easily for me, nor did it arrive at a cheap price. For over forty years, I was heavily involved with the LDS church. I was raised in a very conservative, active LDS family in the heart of Utah. I served a proselyting mission for the church in Europe, returning home eager to serve in the various leadership positions that I was called to. I graduated from the University of Utah, married in the Salt Lake City temple and have three beautiful children. Concerning church activity, my wife had a very similar upbringing, also in Utah. Her father served as an LDS bishop, Stake President and later on as a mission president. So, our decision to “leave the church” actually was an extremely difficult one. As we have continued to live in Utah, the decision has involved many aspects of our lives – not just our time on Sundays.
To clarify an important point: We don’t believe that we have left the church. We believe that it left us. Our decision was not based on anything other than what we consider to be an intelligent, informed decision. We did not commit grave sins. We were never disciplined in any way by the church. Our decision was purely based on prayer, study and our complete love for our children.
We have read and studied faithfully over the past three decades. I have been an active participant in FARMS publications, forums and debates. I practically know the Book of Mormon by memory. (I will leave it up to the reader to research FARMS acronym and purpose) I choose not to participate in a lengthy discussion about the thirty years of prayer and study that has led me to my current position regarding religion, but I will say this much: I believe that the world is a very dangerous place today, due in large part to the “chosen people” attitude of religion. Everyone wants to belong to the private, exclusive club. We all want to believe that our lives are blessed, that our existence has a validating God. And we justify horrible deeds in the name of this God. We fly airplanes into buildings, killing thousands of innocent people. We argue endlessly trying to defend our positions on metaphorical musings. We add historicity into religious metaphors, and then spend too much of our valuable time defending our positions. Do any of us really know? Why and when did it become more important to say that we believe something, than it is to be a good person? Too often, we loose the importance of a message taught through metaphor as we argue the historicity of events taught in the metaphor. Is the beautiful message of renewal, spiritual rebirth and repentance less important than standing up and shouting that one believes in the actual resurrection of Christ?
This blog is far too long, and I apologize for this. At the same time, I am grateful for the opportunity to share some thoughts.
Kirk